Keto, Fitness and Everything In between

The Age of Influencer Marketing Transparency, Scammy Facebook Ads and Cancel Culture

October 01, 2020 Gia and friends Episode 10
Keto, Fitness and Everything In between
The Age of Influencer Marketing Transparency, Scammy Facebook Ads and Cancel Culture
Show Notes Transcript

Hello and welcome to episode 10 of Keto, Fitness and Everything In Between!

This episode:

Gia and Anna talk influencer marketing, how Facebook ads struggle to target your best demographic and the ways that sales funnels don't work and how to fix them.

Also mentioned:

  • Anxiety about talking to a camera
  • Blogging for SEO
  • Reading: How to get to the top of google
  • Backlinking to up your game


They also touch on how hard it is to start your business from day 1, the silly Facebook ads we've seen and some keto chat about accountability.

Keto chat starts at 20:00


Why is our podcast different? 

There is nothing on the market like us! We all follow a ketogenic diet as well as know the ins and outs of the industry. Chat with us on social! Hope to see you there!

As followers of the keto diet, as well as women in business, we have a unique take on our lives so far.

Welcome to Keto, Fitness and Everything In Between, a weekly podcast hosted by a combo of, twenty-something-year-old best friends and digital creators, Gia, Lauren, Anna and Shannon. Each week they welcome listeners into their daily life for a special helping of the tea you’re not getting from their wildly popular Instagrams. From fun lighthearted conversations about diet and fitness to sharing their tips to help to feel more confident in business– each week you’ll be left wanting more of them! New episodes every Monday!


We have some special guests joining us in the next few weeks and some amazing business-related episodes with Gia and Anna being released every fortnight!



Our links:

Gia - Keto blogger www.veganketorecipes.net , @makeshiftmermaid on insta

Anna - Owner of
slothmove, @thehealthyeng on insta

Shannon - Keto influencer
@_shannonslife, down 120lbs on keto

Lauren - Keto bread queen
@fromkarbstoketo

Our website:
www.ketofitnessetc.com


Disclaimer: The opinions in this podcast are from true experiences and so do not constitute defamation or slander. People should be able to make informed decisions around what they put money into. Do what you do at your own risk. Talk to a medical professional about any supplements or medication and do your own research. 

Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/keto)

UPDATE -FILMED IN EARLY AUGUST, GIA WAS ABOUT TO GO TO CYPRUS AND HAS BEEN POSTING ON HER STORIES SINCE!!

Support the show

hello and welcome to the keto fitness and everything in between podcast today gia and i will be talking about one of those in-between things which is business now business is something that we are both passionate about and we're both passionate about helping people start their business journey as well so within these podcasts you'll be hearing about startups getting started gig economy and just all these things that you don't really realize until you start a business yourself so hopefully this will be helpful to you hopefully it will inspire you to take your steps into starting your own business um if not we hope we can start you know at least be uh potentially planting the seed for that future idea um so if you love this please leave us a review and if you have any other questions don't hesitate to ask us

on the influencer side you have these micro influencers that are spending so much money on products in the hope that they'll get an advert out of it or a sponsorship or an affiliate and if you're constantly having to spend that money on those products just to get that then you're not doing enough for yourself to be able to actually sustain that because it can only go on so long before you're like oh actually i can't can't afford rent i can't afford my food because i've bought xyz and i feel like we've been like we've kind of been surrounded by people that want to be up there but haven't got the knowledge of how to get there yeah i feel like with influencer like that's a whole world that like i don't understand and i imagine a lot of people that kind of you know get the following at the following up like also don't understand what it means and like what you know you can do what the potential is as well it feels to me like there's a whole shift like you know how you had like the industrial revolution and all this like technological revolution like i feel like we're having an influencer one as well because it's like it's just a whole new ballgame for people but it's like what is it what does it mean what do you do there needs to be like an education i mean i think people aren't giving enough out so for instance like you've got people that they're like fashion let's say like that they've got a fashion blog but they're not giving anything out to their audience i'm gonna be frank people are impatient people are greedy and people are cheap for the most part so if you're not giving out stuff for free you can't expect engagement because people aren't going to want to like be listening to you it'd like as again like very different to serve space because you know yeah are paying for a service but from a from something that you could literally start at home then you have to be churning out something that people actually want and people would be drawn into i mean i've been looking through a lot of facebook ads i've been clicking on a lot of the facebook ads that i want to see just to see how they're doing it how they create a sales funnel and how they're creating ads to get people on email marketing i mean my email is now filled with loads of things about blogs podcasts monetization and basically like my entire industry just so that i can get more of an understanding of what people want but then if you're going in blind you're never going to understand what people are actually clicking on until you do that yourself yeah because you've got to understand what the p what you know what people want and one of the things as well so like you talk about giving things out like i think that's really interesting because like i feel that and like i'm not talking from an authoritative place it either like this is just my kind of view on influencers is like people that are giving out more so adding value like actually giving out information that is credible reviewing honestly i feel even if they have a smaller following i feel that you get influences even around like the 5k marks you know i mean like they're giving a lot like the engagement rate is higher people are more likely to work with them and as well i don't know like what you've what you feel about like niches do you feel you need to be find a niche or do you still think it's like i mean like it's okay to be broader thing is i mean you can be broad but you need to be honest and you'd be credible so for instance my niche is very small vegan keto is extremely small don't ask me why i picked it but you know you know i was obviously just documenting at the time i never thought that it would ever get bigger i think it's a good niche by the way thank you thank you but obviously like that has a lot of bubbles within vegan within gluten-free within just normal keto low-carb like it's got a lot of bubbles but if you're going into something general you either have to give something new and exciting or you have to be giving stuff out for free and you have to be honest and credible and transparent as soon as someone finds out like something is like wrong with your profile or i see so many people making the mistake of buying followers like you can see clearly that there's like a tool online and i know that we've used it within our group chat and the like influencer marketing one and if someone's got like under 50 out of 100 they're probably buying followers or they're buying likes or they're buying comments and one like instagram knows that it's going to wreck your algorithm and two what's the point because you're again paying it's the same product you're paying out for a service without getting anything back you're paying for a shortcut that's not that's not actually gonna get you there any quicker it'll just get your numbers up stuff that's literally it noticed by brands maybe but when they actually look into you which brands do now of course as well like it feels like it's moved away from how many followers you have more to um you know what your engagement is because like i spoke to a few influencer marketing agencies and like i switched through they all work in like completely different ways but actually a lot of them are more around like you know they will go and hand pick influences around you know whatever product that it is or service that you have to offer but it's always always about engagement as opposed to the number of followers which i thought was really interesting and it's good because like i think we're i think we're over the kind of oh they've got a million followers everything they're saying must be true like you know there's so much more transparency out there now so i think it's you know it's a really good thing with it's just so i mean like even like these agencies are talking about they have influences that are one to 2k as well yeah yeah i mean the thing is is that micro influencers are likely to post about you more and have real honest conversations with people rather than like almost like a nameless kind of influencer that doesn't respond to dms that doesn't post stories that are actually engaging they're all sponsored or affiliate and you can see through their comments section they're they are making real connections to their followers yeah 100 oh facebook ads or no facebook ads okay i know you have a lot to say on this well do you know i'm not sure about facebook ads literally had this conversation yesterday again so i was saying that i feel if somebody was looking into sloth's move like or if we were to look into sloth moving it wasn't ours like the one thing that i would have said is run ads run more ads get your name out there even if it's like an awareness piece or whatever it is but it's just not something that we've done and i don't know if it's just because like i don't understand facebook ads or you know the best way to run them one thing that i found with with facebook ads is like it's really difficult especially for like what we do it's very difficult to like target people like they took away they used to have a behavior which is about to move home like they used to have that and they got rid of it and i was like damn it so i don't know the one i did run one that was really successful and it was an ad that we we basically run like a competition to get some followers on facebook and that went so well but i feel like you've got to be giving something out for people to you know to hit through yeah i mean i know like from my own experience of kind of clicking through these facebook ads that i was only clicking on the ones that were like how to guide or like 10 free ways to do this i mean the only money that i've ever because it has to say free i'm not going to click on you if you say that you can transform my instagram for 27 like it's not gonna happen i'm sorry because if you if you really aren't giving out anything for free then no one can judge what your service is obviously for you you've got like a lot more information on your website about like how it works and all that but for someone that where it's literally a person and they're telling you that they can do all of this you just aren't going to want to spend that money yeah i think facebook probably work when it is a person if it's you and your fake like a person's face like i think that works so much better because i think it's when you're on facebook like this is this is just like a me opinion thing like when i'm on facebook i'm scrolling through you know friends and families like posts and memes and things and then all of a sudden boom something pops up for me to buy and i'm just scrolling whereas something interesting came up and i'm like oh cool who's this what are they gonna say like i definitely find myself stopping and looking at ads which have someone that is helping with something as opposed to somebody that's selling something so i shared with you that a webinar the other week she'd done this webinar and for the first 40 minutes it was actually really interesting but then by the end she was obviously moving to try and sell you her program and it is a complete marketing like genius move but i find that that kind of like fast moving selling doesn't work on everyone and what you were saying about targeting ads is actually honestly like so true because i've done a lot of facebook ads just try and like build engagement and you get like free credits sometimes just trying to use those and i found that i was more concerned with the engagements rather than whether they are actually part of my targeted audience and i think people are aren't using ads to the right kind of capability that i've seen a lot on instagram that are not relevant at all to anything that i've ever clicked on yeah i feel like facebook ads is like another one of those mine minefields if you don't look into it or you come from like a background of marketing like i think it is just crazy and i almost think it's a way it's definitely like a waste of money unless you know exactly what you're doing and you have the metrics that you're wanting because like you say there's like the engagement rate but then there's also is the quote what's the quality of the people that are engaging yeah exactly i mean i don't know if you've been through like the instagram version of this like facebook ad manager so basically you click like promote you go through and then if your audience isn't above a certain number it like doesn't want you to follow through with that advert so you could literally like put like one keyword but it'll say that's like too little it'll like come up with a notification at the top it'll still let you do it but if you're looking at that for the first time and you think oh maybe like that's not enough maybe i should be putting it to more people it's not that is that facebook doesn't want you to spend money on relevant ads because you'll then spend less money on ads yeah that's so true and like i guess like you've gone through it as well like when you're starting your own thing there's so much to learn so quickly it's so many different elements of just what it takes like one minute you do marketing the next it's like okay content and you know like i just find i'm wearing so many hats all the time and like when you come across something new like you always come across something that's like oh god how'd you do this okay i'm gonna go find out like all the time like a roller coaster and i was gonna say like that i'd seen that bill's ad i don't know if you've seen the one with the air cooler it was like a complete ploy and underneath there was just so many unhappy people that had literally signed up like the day before and then they're just i mean it was a heat wave in the uk like this week and for and those people just weren't ever going to get their air cooler because they'd already purchased they were they were so mad i just and it was just like comment after comment that was literally all of the comments but they don't realize that they are actually increasing these people's engagement but i guess they're just costing them money for bad comments but i just thought that was just like why would you do that because people are already on edge because it's like 35 degrees but to then run a competition for that and fyi the prize wasn't going to be delivered for three months because you had to sign up for that long i'm just like don't people read tease and see i think that's the one thing as well about ads is the fact that there's comments so like if you are pushing a product and i don't know if you've looked at the comments sometimes like they're all such negative comments and things that have gone wrong and you know saying because services haven't got back to me and it's almost like and it's not it's not a reason to not put ads out but it's almost like it's another area for prospective customers to actually see what current customers are experiencing oh yeah if there's a lot of comments i'm always going to check the comments you're not just going to not do it this is we were talking about that one last week about oh about those like skinny holding like yeah yeah everyone's saying like they're obviously sucking in i love that it's like this year just you're just mugging people off do you have a lot of gullible people on the internet though it's so sad i feel sorry as well at the same time it's like oh come on don't don't fall for it you're better than this something that i think you know we've both struggled with kind of challenges in branding ourselves and marketing but what would you say would be your biggest challenge definitely like imposter syndrome i really don't feel like i'm from a business background didn't even study like business at gcse or at school like any kind of business module and i think that already set me up on like the back foot because i'm like ugh i'm talking to all these different people like i spoke to like a ceo of an energy company and you know ceo ceos of other companies and i i'm here feeling like god do i even have the right to be speaking to them like little old me you know i mean like so that's definitely like has been my biggest challenge like kind of just just back in myself i mean i'd have to say for me is i've really struggled with consistency for so long and it was probably to do with imposter syndrome that i didn't feel like i should have been the one to be influencing people i i say that in quotes because i i will still never call myself like a proper influencer um maybe when i get to like 100k then we'll we'll talk again so i think you have the right to that side so now you've got great information thank you i mean i i think my post on watermelon was extremely extremely uh important to life uh if people have never tried watermelon with the tajin seasoning then you are missing out

but i mean the thing is is that if you you can believe in yourself so much but then if you can't let go of the fact that you are trying to start something and you do deserve to be in that field then you you're going to struggle i mean as i said like my burnout was definitely because of imposter syndrome because i was not 100 on keto so i did not feel like i should have been posting and what was i going to post i'm not going to post like my packet of oreos that i've just eaten because it's not part it's not a part of my page like and you can say that you want to be real but when you've got the pressure of people putting out recipe after recipe like day after day then you're going to want to be posting something like that yeah i i kind of know how you feel on that one because like i had my my instagram page and i used to post like daily if not twice daily like when i first started when i first started it back in 2016 and it was cool what was it called then fat ass to fit last that was my handle and then it got to a point and it was probably about a year ago that i stopped posting like you say ask consistently and it's because focusing on sloth move and also working full-time like i just could i i lost focus on myself like that was the thing that suffered because i was working like so many hours in a day and burning out and just exhausted like i just started putting away and then i always felt like it was wrong for me to post and to even talk about being healthy when i didn't feel healthy myself like it i know exactly where i'd like i know where you're coming from because it's it's really difficult and almost like you feel like you're letting people down so weird and it's like we shouldn't we shouldn't put that honors because it's like we are just people like you know life it's just life isn't it but it's so hard to like tell yourself that at the time i mean i was on my way to being like one of those kind of like success stories because the way that i was going but no one saw the behind the scenes that i was only eating certain food and that some of the food that i probably showed i might not have even eaten or i'd like put it straight in the fridge and i'd eaten it like the next day it was it wasn't so clear-cut like this is what i've actually eaten for the day and notice i've never shared my like macros for the day because i wasn't proud of them which is so stupid because when you're eating like non-animal products you're going to have slightly higher carbs and that's fine because you're lowering your inflammation by not having dairy or meat yeah definitely and the thing is as well like you were successful with those macros as well and i think this is the thing like especially like coming swinging back around quito 20 20 grams of carbs like five percent that's just kind of like an arbitrary value that people give it's like around 20 you know 20 grams a day you'll be fine but actually in reality people can have 50 to 100 grams a day and still be in ketosis like it would take longer to get into ketosis but you'd still get into ketosis yeah especially if you're a healthy active person 100 and i think that's almost where the danger and i think that's where like all these outside views of keto come from as well like you can't have a banana you know can't have this can't have that but it's like well you can it it's just not as cutthroat as 20 a day and that's it you're done obviously because you should be counting your macros at least for you know the first couple of weeks just to make sure that you're kind of on track obviously depending on like how you cope with that because i know a lot of people do struggle and myself included like if i feel like i haven't eaten that well then i don't want to be putting it into like an app as well as that like when you do start putting into you know putting all your macros into an app you can get really obsessive over it as well i feel like um because it's almost a competition with yourself and a lot of people say that yeah i think that's how i got into my bad habit when i first started losing weight because like i started on like 1500 calories and then i was like i think that was like a couple of days in a week where like i was doing 1200 i was like i feel okay i'm 1200 and like 1200 was the target and then it was a thousand and then it ended up being like 500 which thankfully like was just like toast because i'd like have refeed days at the weekend but again all not knowing but yeah it's how it kind of like panned out for me so i can definitely see how that can lead to you know dangerous dangerous eating disorders yeah but like obviously going back to like the business side like that i just didn't feel like my brand was me anymore because i wasn't being truthful with my audience and i wasn't being truthful with myself about what was actually happening behind the scenes like so i left uni and like on my graduating year like and moved back to cambridge because you know families here and i don't really have anyone in coventry i know my views of on that have kind of changed where i am going to move back to coventry but yeah yeah well i think it's like i've got my flat there like it does make financial sense and independent sense and you know spaced films but when you're doing like a job where you are on your feet all the time and you have one break a day then and you're like i mean i was like starving but like my break time so like it was just like overeating whereas in like a more remote working situation you can kind of be on track with that yeah i i completely agree with you on that one because like i posted the other day um about fasting and i was quite strict fasting like um 16 8 is it 69 yeah 16 8 and all of a sudden like my weight loss and just i just even feel good doing it i don't know what it was but i think it's because like you say you get hungry and then all of a sudden it gets because like 12 o'clock was also like in my head i'd had like 12 would you've got to get to 12. got to get to 12. well there's an actual fact i could have eaten at 10 and you know short i don't know whatever but i just started eating if i'm hungry now i eat breakfast and i just feel so back on track i just feel so much better in myself and i think as well like fasting isn't good for everyone especially like i'm sure there's something about fasting isn't the best for women yeah we need shorter yeah there's a lot of videos on youtube that i know i've looked at and while the kind of research is like inconclusive the main thing is is that with the hormonal changes that go through the month then there may be days where you can't fast i mean trying to fast on my period is the worst thing i like lightheadedness like iron levels are just plummeting like i just can't i can't do it anymore on on that week i mean the rest of the week like i have had success with fasting and i'm doing kind of 24 hours you know just keep carrying that on but as you said like if i'm hungry and i know i now know what hunger feels like rather than you know just wanting to eat that yeah i can now just do that and not have to feel guilty about eating yeah i literally in the same boat so i used to think like i'm not hungry like i'm just being greedy but it's just not the case like if you're hungry you're hungry just just eat i mean i have felt like with a lot of the times i have been dehydrated and i never want to like put the thing out there for fill yourself up with water because it's not gonna it's not gonna work for everyone but i have consciously tried to have more water during the day so i can actually feel when i'm truly hungry and um i've been watching a lot of abby sharp um i know she's quite she can be a bit controversial on her kind of like dietary choice with the keto community because but she does have a lot of great points about mindful eating and to actually enjoy the food that you're having and also to not feel guilty about days where you do have maybe higher carbs because there are a lot of kind of healthy carbs out there i mean whole foods for instance i mean then i would probably always stay away from like rice and quinoa and the heavy grains but something like a sweet potato i'm not i'm not being funny but like even a normal potato like if i want a jack of potato like once a month then i'm probably gonna have it yeah but it's not a case of treating yourself it's just he's just nutrition it's just you know our body isn't gonna just all of a sudden reject it or you know we're not gonna grow horns in a devil town a lot of duplication i mean mutate obviously i feel healthier on low carb and keto but to sacrifice like my mental health to like fit into that 20 grams a day i i'm just not going to do that anymore no and i think as well like when it comes to eating fruit and vegetable as there's a strict difference between you know having loads of chocolate and biscuits versus having fruit and vegetables like they're very different things yeah definitely and obviously like when you're trying to like calculate carbs of like a salad i i just i don't do it anymore honestly like if you want more greens then you want more greens i think there's so few in it it's almost not worth it i don't think i've ever ever tracked salad like ever track salad in um my fitness pal or anything like it's just not worth it it's so few calories like the maximum in it maximum in a day is going to be not even 100 calories jar i mean like you'd struggle to eat 100 calories worth of spinach because oh kale i mean i can only eat so much kale you know this is like done really nicely like in loads of garlic anyway now you were talking about like posting kind of like that kind of going down on consistency and i know myself but i don't know how you feel about kind of quality of content over the quantity that you're kind of putting out yeah i i think quality for sure because i used to be like a view of it's got to be post once a day at least and i don't think it's the case now and like i think i think it goes down in the stories now anyway i think stories are where it i think that's just the better place to post because that's more of like a i think that's more like a snapshot of you know you and your day it's more personal whereas like a single photo or like short video on your on your grid is very different and it's like i've not posted for a few days i think it's like i need i think i need like a food pose and all i've been eating is burrata and i've already posted it recently so

i need help like i find myself watching stories a lot more than actually searching through the feed yeah 100 i just think i think you can put so much more information out there as well you can get to know people better in stories as well i i don't know it's the only reason because like i used to be i used to hate as well i don't know how you felt but like i used to hate talking on stories just talking in general on camera like it was all it always mortified me but i think seeing more people do it and then just kind of getting over it and doing it it's it's i don't know i feel i feel i don't want to say in power because i feel that sounds like it feels really cheesy but like i feel like it just gives you like an area of confidence as well because people actually resonate like the engagement that i get from talking about something like you know fast fashion or something around that like gets a lot more anyway and that's what i'm here for i mean for me like social media is just about having like meaningful conversations and i think you can get that on your story it's more than your feed i've definitely felt that that i just haven't wanted to post things with myself in it it's a whole like seeing myself on camera seeing myself like you know because you can then edit it however you want and whereas like sometimes i've literally talked to the camera and then just posted it and not looked at it again because i don't know what it end and this this whole thing is going to be a massive obstacle for me to um actually get through is listening to my own voice i am i feel like i i'm so driven away from any form of narcissism that i don't want to hear my own voice like i just i feel such a detachment what what do you think it is like because for me when i i used to hate it like i used to cringe so much because like i i used to like i had like i did a couple of youtube videos a couple of years back oh essence editing it was painful was so painful and i just used to think this is just so embarrassing sound awful because well like sounds so different to what way we hear ourselves when we talk versus where like the way we hear ourselves play back is so different as well and um i posted after posting like a couple of videos like the youtube ones like it i had such like good feedback from it and i was like maybe it's all in my i think again it's all in our heads all in our head but it's really difficult it's like i think that is one of the biggest thing to overcome i think and i don't we're alone i think everyone feels the same it's such a first world problem is that oh i can't listen to my own voice but i think because i i was never a fan of like public speaking quite introverted that me talking to the camera is pure hell for me and it is something i need to get over because at the end of the day i'm the face of my own brand and i need to just could i get over myself to be honest but even i find that maybe i i know you say that everyone like hates their voice but i think that i'm like quite nasally and quite posh because i'm from cambridge like it's quite hard for me to go i think people like we are our biggest critics as well remember that we criticize ourselves so so badly because like i have such a mix-mash accent and i'm short-tongued as well so i know that like i'm i'm always like oh my god i'm just like sound like a you know uneducated fool sometimes and even think about like the group chat sally sally hated the sound of her own voice because she's like oh i've got a proper northern accent and it's like it's just it's just our voice but i think people resonate when they hear people speak i think that's a really really big engagement piece and i think we just put ourselves in our own way i think and you know the one thing that helped me get over it initially was not actually holding the camera to my face and talking like i used to have the camera pointing at something else like i think i did like a couple of recipe stories where i was like just talking instead of like looking at the camera that was like i think one of the biggest things that helped me get over it because then it wasn't it wasn't me and my voice it was just my voice it sounds so stupid that that is fair enough and because then i guess you're only getting like half of half of what you kind of don't want to be posting yeah but genuinely like i i don't think you should have any worries about what you sound like at all like you have a really lovely accent don't don't stress yourself out about it in fact i challenge you before you go on holiday which isn't isn't very long it's tomorrow we've got it we're gonna hear you we gotta hear you even just if it's one slide that's my challenge to you we're going to get over there well we're going to get over this um you can see me oh i know i'll have my mask on you know that's that's funky and current and there we go relevant in the airport absolutely sold it's honestly been a thing like since secondary school that even before that like just doesn't has i've never liked i know like the sun my invoice and i don't know if it's i had a lot of uh hearing issues uh in primary school i had to have like grommets quite young because it turned out like i couldn't really hear anything for like two years and and maybe just like oh if you had no idea forgive me just like reading lips i bet you're good at it though yeah it probably helps me now but i i find it's a bit too easy to um to switch off from what's actually like happening around me because i'm not if i'm not looking at someone i'm like uh i wasn't really listening sorry i only people to be fair that they just say things like three times sometimes to me before it actually goes in like if i'm looking at my phone i'm like

i have it where i say what like what did you say and before they've even finished this sentence i applied to it i've replayed it before they've had a chance to say it again i don't know if you've ever had that yeah and then you have to listen to them say it again even though you've already answered just being difficult that's fine it's final we're over it we've kind of like talked about like the whole spectrum but for you marketing in general for sloth move what would you say your kind of story would be if you were kind of like saying like how you were trying to build your business and what the best kind of marketing thing was for you we kind of went down the organic traffic group and we looked into search and engine optimization a lot because we kind of realized like i was saying to you earlier like we want to be this kind of like credibility this authoritative voice like actually helping people and the best way for us to do that was to write like really detailed articles on this is how you can update your address with dvla oh here's a convenient form that you can fill in it's our form it's free by the way this and we did that with our dvla and like boots advantage card and tesco to the point where on our live chat we get like oh can i order a new replacement card because they thought that it was like boots or tesco like daily at least three were quite requests um so yeah we kind of had this like do we do seo do we do ads and we went down the seo route because i think when you kind of compare the two if you are targeting you can really really target a blog post or an article at a specific person at a specific point so someone that is looking on how to update their address when they're moving home um for driving license or their logbook or you know all these other things with the council like if we we know that somebody is searching for that is the ideal person that our service is you know tuned for as opposed to running ads which is kind of like more more of a seat like a bigger sea of people that you know we can't really target as well and as well like for us like it's such a unique service it doesn't exist like people don't know about it so to put an ad up like you'd have to get so much information in a very small real estate almost just doesn't it just wouldn't work for us so and i always think like seo for everyone like i think it's really really undervalued um like we've managed to grow our site 15 000 monthly views within it and then we have around like 3 000 people go through our service off the back of that as well so it takes time like it's definitely like a time investment but i think it's a better time and money investment for sure i've been reading this book it's not sponsored but i had to bring it up here which is um how to get to the top of google nice was it it was it's just about like seo and um just with most profitable keywords analyzing your online competition and doing better than them is so important you're one of the best things so find a competitor and they're sites where you can go and see where all their backlinks are then you just contact those websites and then contact a few more after that just you know up up happy game you want your site to be above your competitors eventually but that is obviously like the goal because you know if someone looks up the prince is like moving house changing bills you want sloth move to be like up there but i think people do take seo like for granted because they think that that's all included like they've bought a squarespace subscription they think that's fine like that's done but things like that like they take time and they take a lot of links especially um yes obviously shopify's had a lot of issues and with certain stores that they are really struggling for traffic and like no one can really like find a reason why but i mean in my opinion it's probably due to lack of links within it and lack of code as well because if you've got a really simple site google's going to read it as a like just a kind of almost like a dead website aren't they yeah and one of the i forget the name of it but basically if you write an article so for us for example we have changing address dvla but then we also have like a sea of all the articles around dvla so how do you attach your car how do you do this how to do that and then google will be like oh this website knows about you know it's quite clued upon dvla they write a lot about that so we'll bump them up so i think we're like dvla is one of our top articles like i think we're third or fourth for that one i think and it is literally just since we've like started having these like other articles it's intent like it is really intense like if you really want to do well at seo like we were doing an article a day we did an article a day a month get it up there get some backlinks and what i didn't know as well like i only found this out recently but if you actually link to other sites with a higher domain authority i didn't know that i actually boosted you a little bit and that was that's like oh but i i didn't know that i just thought it was like if you get linked by someone else but here we are we found that with with obviously who i work for that that by linking people like keto connect and wholesome yum that you do get bumped up it's like a whole game as well and i think if you're going to go into seo like it's like a minefield again like it's there's so much to it and there's so many different strategies and so many different ways that you can do it so the best thing to do is like really have a reset like research into it and another thing that you can do as well is speak like post a job on fiverr or up work and they can actually have like zoom calls with some of the people that you're gonna you know you're gonna work with and understand what different strategies are out there like speak to expert and also like if you don't have the time to for instance do that then you should be hiring someone on fiverr to write those blogs yeah i mean like if you can give those blogs to someone else i mean why not like i definitely want to get to a point where we can do that or we just have like ghosts because like we've done like the authority content ourselves because we we kind of don't trust anyone else to do that and we we want to like we understand it and we want to understand yeah of course but then things like you know as we get into the more lifestyle like day to day things like i'd love other people to start writing like what was their home move like like have a kobe diary how was moving in copic what was the difference that kind of thing so yeah even things like home decor and

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